Willis Carto archive

Including information about his associates

Is Greg Raven a Scientologist?

After the IHR gave Willis and Elisabeth Carto their walking papers in October 1993, Willis began his now-famous attempt to ruin the IHR to avoid accountability for millions of dollars that he had fraudulently diverted to his personal uses from the IHR.

One of the lies he started was that the Church of Scientology had somehow taken over the IHR. This lie had the veneer of plausibility, because two employees at that time were members of the Church of Scientology. (It should be pointed out that the CoS does NOT agree with the historical viewpoint of the Holocaust espoused by the IHR.)

However, there have been no Scientologists working for the IHR for years, a fact that has forced Carto to modify his lie by naming me, Greg Raven, as a Scientologist, in order to provide a connection between the CoS and IHR, thus keeping his fallacious “conspiracy” charge alive.

Over the many days that Carto and his attorneys harassed Tom Marcellus in depositions, the subject of Scientology came up repeatedly, along with questions regarding my involvement with CoS, as can be seen in the following deposition transcript, given under oath (and penalty of perjury).

           SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA

                    FOR THE COUNTY OF SAN DIEGO



  ______________________________
                                )
  LEGION FOR THE SURVIVAL OF    )
  FREEDOM, INC.,                )
                                )
                 PLAINTIFF,     )
                                )    CASE No.
                                )    N65481
       VS.                      )    Volume II
                                )
  WILLIS CARTO, HENRY FISCHER,  )
  VIBET, INC., LIBERTY LOBBY,   )
  INC., ET. AL.,                )
                                )
                 DEFENDANTS.    )
                                )
  ______________________________)


                     Deposition of:
                     THOMAS J. MARCELLUS
                     Tuesday, August 16, 1994, 10:00 a.m.

                     For the Defendants:
                          Waier & Urtnowski
                          Law Offices
                          By: Randall S. Waier
                          Attorney at Law
                          1301 Dove
                          Suite 760
                          Newport Beach, California

                     Also present:
                          Willis Carto

page 35
22       […]

23       Q     How did you meet Greg Raven?

24       A     I met Greg Raven by virtue of a letter that he

25  wrote to the Institute back in 1984, I believe it was.

page 37
 1       […]

 2       Q     Isn't it true that he’s a Scientologist?

 3       A     I don't know.
			
			

So far, so good. Tom and I had never discussed Scientology, nor my personal religious beliefs. Later, Carto asked Tom if there was any connection between IHR and CoS, as can be seen in the following portion of the deposition transcript.

           SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA

                    FOR THE COUNTY OF SAN DIEGO



  ______________________________
                                )
  LEGION FOR THE SURVIVAL OF    )
  FREEDOM, INC.,                )
                                )
                 PLAINTIFF,     )
                                )    CASE No.
                                )    N65481
       VS.                      )    Volume III
                                )
  WILLIS CARTO, HENRY FISCHER,  )
  VIBET, INC., LIBERTY LOBBY,   )
  INC., ET. AL.,                )
                                )
                 DEFENDANTS.    )
                                )
  ______________________________)


                     Deposition of:
                     THOMAS J. MARCELLUS
                     Tuesday, August 17, 1994, 9:36 a.m.

                     For the Defendants:
                          Waier & Urtnowski
                          Law Offices
                          By: Randall S. Waier
                          Attorney at Law
                          1301 Dove
                          Suite 760
                          Newport Beach, California

                     Also present:
                          Willis Carto

page 23
 4       […]

 5       Q     In connection with the Church of Scientology, do

 6  they have any relationship with the Legion presently?

 7       A     No.
			
			

Although Tom was pretty sure I had nothing to do with CoS, he had been struck by this line of questioning, so on his return to the office he asked me for the first time if I was a Scientologist, or had any connection with CoS. I told him that I was not a Scientologist, and had no connection whatsoever with CoS.

Thus, on a subsequent day of questioning, Tom was able to answer the question definitively when Carto brought it up again, as can be seen in the following portion of that day’s deposition transcript.

           SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA

                    FOR THE COUNTY OF SAN DIEGO



  ______________________________
                                )
  LEGION FOR THE SURVIVAL OF    )
  FREEDOM, INC.,                )
                                )
                 PLAINTIFF,     )
                                )    CASE No.
                                )    N65481
       VS.                      )    Volume IV
                                )
  WILLIS CARTO, HENRY FISCHER,  )
  VIBET, INC., LIBERTY LOBBY,   )
  INC., ET. AL.,                )
                                )
                 DEFENDANTS.    )
                                )
  ______________________________)


                     Deposition of:
                     THOMAS J. MARCELLUS
                     Tuesday, September 7, 1994

                     For the Defendant Willis Carto:
                          Willis Carto
                          In Pro Per
                          P.O. Box 1306
                          Torrance, California 90505

page 91
16       […]

17       Q     Isn't it a little unusual that you've known

18  Greg Raven for ten years and you didn't know, as you

19  testified, at the time that he was hired that he was — that

20  he was a member of the Church of Scientology --

21       Mr. Musselman:  Objection. Without foundation.

22       Mr. Carto: — or that you didn't know what religion he

23  was?

24       The Witness: It’s my understanding Greg is not

25 religious. He certainly is not a Scientologist. Now, I don't

page 92
 1  know where you got that harebrained idea, but it’s not true.
			
			

Undeterred by the facts, Carto continued to lie about this in The Spotlight. But then, why should he tell the truth about me while he was lying about everything and everybody else?

Therefore, I wrote The Spotlight a letter, which they published (with a response, see below).


I N S T I T U T E   F O R   H I S T O R I C A L   R E V I E W
P.O. Box 2739 — Newport Beach, CA — 92659

Tuesday, 25 October 1994

Letters Editor
Spotlight
300 Independence Avenue SE
Washington, DC 20003

Dear Sirs:

Not having the good judgment to avoid printing an obviously spurious “letter to the editor” about me in your October 24 Spotlight, you then compounded your error by adding a lie of your own.

The only person who could have “told” letter-writer “Charles Peabody” (whoever that is) that I am a scientologist is someone who either does not know me, is lying about me, or both. I am not now and never have been a scientologist. Your Mr. Willis Carto knows this quite well, as he asked IHR president Tom Marcellus if I am a scientologist, and Mr. Marcellus answered under oath that I am not. Curiously, the same Mr. Carto who now refers to me as “enigmatic” in the past has claimed to have been the one who hired me to work at the IHR.

The Spotlight and Carto must be pretty desperate to destroy the IHR if you are reduced to publishing baseless lies about me. Why not publish some of your long-promised “proof” that IHR director Andrew Allen is an ADL agent?

Greg Raven
Associate editor

Carto acknowledged receiving this letter when he deposed me a month later, as can be seen in the following portion of the deposition transcript.

           SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA

                    FOR THE COUNTY OF SAN DIEGO



  ______________________________
                                )
  LEGION FOR THE SURVIVAL OF    )
  FREEDOM, INC.,                )
                                )
                 PLAINTIFF.     )
                                )
                                )
       VS.                      )   CASE No. N64584
                                )
  WILLIS CARTO, HENRY FISCHER,  )
  VIBET, INC., LIBERTY LOBBY,   )
  INC., ET. AL.,                )
                                )
                 DEFENDANTS.    )
                                )
  ______________________________)


                     Deposition of:
                     GREG RAVEN
                     Monday, November 7, 1994

                     For the Defendant: Elisabeth Carto
                          Waier & Urtnowski
                          Law Offices
                          By: Randall S. Waier
                          Attorney at Law
                          1301 Dove
                          Suite 760
                          Newport Beach, California 92660

                     Also present:
                          Willis Carto (In Pro Per)

page 150
10       […]

11       Q     On or about October the 25th did you write a

12  letter to the Spotlight?

13       A     I might have.

14       Q     You don't remember?

15       A     I write a great many letters. I don't memorize

16  every letter I write.

17       Q     Did you write a letter to the Spotlight in which

18  you said that “I am not now and never have been a

19  scientologist"?

20       A     Yes.

21       Q     Is that a true statement?

22       A     Of course.

23       Q     And you say that Mr. Marcellus answered under

24  oath that [you are] not; is that a true statement?

25       A     To the best of my knowledge, yes.

page 156
21       […]

22       Q     Who is Matt Balic?

23       A     I don't know.

24       Q     Have you ever heard of him?

25       A     I've heard the name, yes.

page 157
13       […]

14       Q     What do you know about him besides his name is

15  Matt Balic?

16       A     Nothing.

17       Q     What did you hear about Matt Balic?

18       A     I heard his name.

19       Q     Who mentioned it?

20       A     I don't remember where I originally heard it, but

21  I think it was in the Spotlight a week or two ago.

22       Q     Do you remember in what connection you heard or

23  read his name?

24       A     In the Spotlight I read that he and I were part

25  of some Scientological collusion to take over the IHR.

page 158
 1       Q     Are you?

 2       A     Earth to Carto! No, I'm not.
			
			

Apparently, Carto was too far out in space to get the message. What’s this person doing handling millions of dollars? Why hasn’t this person been institutionalized, or better yet, jailed before he can steal more money from IHR or someone else? And why on Earth does anyone still believe anything he says?

One week after this deposition, in the November 14, 1994, issue of The Spotlight, they printed my letter (seen above) with the following response under the heading, “Who’s Lying?":

On August 18, Tom Marcellus was asked under oath, “Isn’t it true that he (Raven) is a Scientologist?” Marcellus answered, “I don’t know.” Marcellus has known Raven for more than 10 years. Marcellus is a fanatical Scientologist who has paid his “church” many thousands of dollars for “education” and has collected lots of money as commissions for selling other people courses in Scientology. Tom Marcellus never misses an opportunity to huckster. That he would not know whether or not Raven is also a Scientologist is inconceivable. One has to conclude that Marcellus lied and the gun-toting Raven also lies. As for ADL agent Allen, we'll get around to him presently. — Ed.

So, Carto has no proof to support his position, but all the evidence to the contrary somehow proves his point. No wonder some people who know him ask the question, “Willis Carto idiot or liar? You decide!” Note also that Carto planned to run my letter and his reply in this issue of The Spotlight, knowing that he would have the opportunity to ask me about it personally. However, after getting my answers, he never published a retraction, apology, or correction.

Let’s look at the facts surrounding the allegations contained in Carto’s response to my letter:

  • I subscribed to the Journal of Historical Review in 1979, donated money, and eventually did some work for the IHR from my home. During that time, I did have a very limited correspondence with Tom, as I was a mechanic and he was trying to fix up an old Triumph. I wasn’t able to help him at all, so there weren’t but two or three letters back and forth. I didn’t really get to know Tom (or anyone else at the IHR) until September 1992, when I was interviewed and eventually hired.
  • Between September 1992, when I met him, and the present (3/2/01), Tom NEVER tried to get me involved in Scientology. He may be a fanatic (although I doubt it), but I have never seen him act fanatical, huckster, or proselytize.
  • As for me being a “gun toter,” I kept a gun at the office to help protect myself and others in case of attack. Carto knew about this, and approved at the time I was hired. Interestingly, he later had to admit in court that he had brought a gun to the IHR office on October 15, 1993, when he attempted to seize it by force! Talk about hypocrisy: I was using a gun legally, and he was using one illegally, but you never hear THAT in The SPOTLIGHT. (For what it’s worth, there is speculation that the gun Carto brought to the IHR office to assist with his violent take-over attempt, was actually stolen by Carto from the estate of Jack Graham. Carto was the executor of Graham’s estate, and stole approximately $18,000 from the estate that was supposed to go to the IHR. The weapons and gold coins that were supposed to be part of the estate were never found nor accounted for.)
  • Finally, as of today (3/2/01), The Spotlight has never published one iota of evidence to support its claims about Andrew Allen.

As for me and Scientology, The SPOTLIGHT continues to repeat this lie time and again. Each time they repeat it, they make it sound more and more certain that I am a Scientologist, or connected with CoS in some way. Carto has yet to produce one piece of evidence to support these (and other) repeated lies, and in fact, they cannot, and there is no way that they could: There is not even the faintest trace of truth in his allegations.

Postscript

In May 2001, Carto acknowledged that he had hired a private detective to find my connection with Scientology, and came up with nothing. Still, of course, he continues to claim that there is a relationship. What an idiot.